itch.io

I greatly enjoyed playing this VN. I think this game was well-made. Each of the different routes does a good job of providing a different plotline and experience for the player. Every route sheds light on a different aspect of the town, the characters involved, their pasts, and their relationship to one another, leaving the reader engaged and wanting to play each route to learn more. 

I think that the plotlines of each route were well-written. The routes each have their "WHAM" moments where something is revealed that totally changes one's perception of the characters, or things go from 0-100 real quick. TJ's route is an example of this, and the last few scenes were shocking due to how quickly things escalated. I did not expect that. These revelations also help keep the reader engaged, and definitely left an impression with me.

 This VN deals with some heavier themes such as trauma, abuse, drug use, and suicide. It does not pull punches in that regard. 

Echo does a good job of creating a tense atmosphere when needed through the use of music, dialogue, and its art. One part that really stood out to me was when Dark Chase just walks onto the screen, all animated and such, in contrast to how characters in Ren'Py usually come and go. That was pretty unsettling, well done. 

Although there is a fair share of romance in Echo and there are a few sex scenes that are written out, but not shown, I think that this game can be enjoyed both by furries and non-furries alike. 

I liked the game's soundtrack, particularly circles3 and the theme that plays whenever action takes place.

 As far as things I didn't like go, there are a couple. In Jenna's route, Flynn and TJ stumbling upon the characters towards the end and the train that the group boards at the end of Leo's route just happening to be the last of 3 trains that were being moved to a museum seem like a plot contrivance, though, to be fair, that one is foreshadowed throughout Leo's and other routes. However, these things occur towards the very end of their respective routes, so they don't ruin the reader's engagement with the story that much. One MIGHT argue that the monster saving the characters in Jenna's route was a Deus Ex Machina, but, given what is revealed about it in other routes, it makes sense from a story perspective. The part where Chase is saved from the mines as he was about to get shot by Brian is a bit iffy in that regard. Maybe it's something that is going to be explored in The Smoke Room or Arches?

TL;DR: Great VN. There are a couple minor things I didn't like, but overall, I would recommend this.

For me, my top 3 VNs (Subject to change, in no particular order) are: Echo, Blackgate, and Lyre. However, the latter 2 are still in development, and Lyre doesn't have much content compared to Adastra. 

I enjoyed playing this. Simply put, I would say that it does not contain the same pitfalls that a couple other VNs that I've read do. Character development and plot advancement are blended together nicely. The scene with the Lyall sticking his muzzle into the door in particular was pretty funny. There are plenty of other good moments in the game. Overall, it was enjoyable, and I would recommend this.

I think the word you're looking for is "intolerable", but otherwise, I agree with everything you said.

Hey guys, I've created a TVTropes page for Far Beyond The World, or rather, for the parts of it that are out. I would appreciate if some of you could help fill in the tropes that I've missed (Or just tell me in the replies so I can add them) as well as help with formatting.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VisualNovel/FarBeyondTheWorld

My critique of this build (Spoilers, obviously): 

As always, Caelan spends a huge chunk of the start simping over Ranok, which detracts from the VN for me. 

Later on, there's a lot (relative to the overall length of the build) of character development going on without much plot advancement. I prefer plot over character, but this particular flaw is more than made up by the events of the feast IMO. The feast scene after the characterization dump was interesting to read and set up good future plot points.

For something that took three months, there isn't a lot of content.

This VN seems to set up a spectacular instance of the "Poor communication kills" trope, as Caelan hides a lot of things from Ranok, but we'll have to see how it plays out and whether this does turn out to be a case study of PCK.

Honestly, given my earlier critiques of FBTW, I would like the ending to be just that, the ending for the VN, However, we all know that isn't going to be the case.

However, I did find Ranok and Caelan getting cockblocked to be hilarious.

"It makes me sad that people won't understand that these games are most of the time not made by professionals. Yeah the story is shitty compared to stories such as Game of Thrones or His Dark Materials, but it remains a gay romance furry sci-fi visual novel only found on itch.io"

The fact that the story is not made by professionals does not absolve it of criticism. And there are VNs that do not suffer from the flaws that Adastra and FBTW do, so it is absolutely do-able.

"How can you expect to have something perfect out of Adastra, and FBtW?"

I don't necessarily expect a VN to be perfect, I just expect it to not be shit.

"I think people like you don't really understand that we don't play these kind of games only to analyse it and literally spitting on it."

"Also, I'd like to add that if FBtW's comment section has been closed, it's mostly because of people like you shitting on games you probably have no interest in."

While I am most flattered that you think that I am so dedicated that I would play through a game that's about as enjoyable as having a power drill rammed through my head solely to write a review on why it is shit, that is unfortunately not the case. I play games to try to enjoy the plot and to deal with boredom.

"We play these kind of games because it allows us to feel safer, less alone..."

That's a pretty damning statement about the quality of your life, don't you think? You might want to examine that.

"That literally makes me sick how you shit on this visual novel just because it's not up to your expectations"

What are you worried about? Some guy on the internet writing a review about why he thinks Adastra is bad in no way affects your ability to play the game.

"You can't say you're afraid of what people consider bad VNs, everyone has a different opinion."

People may have different opinions, but there is such a thing as "General consensus" regarding the quality of a given work.

"Also, I'd like to add that if FBtW's comment section has been closed, it's mostly because of people like you shitting on games you probably have no interest in."

Press (X) to doubt

X

IIRC, during the final days before the comment section got nuked, people were mostly commenting on how Kael kept lying about when he would be able to release a new update to FBTW, and some people were linking the "Manipulation, Hypocrisy, Slander, Inaction" video. The "Official" reason why the comment section got closed is because supposedly someone posted a link to download the patreon content. However, given the content of the aforementioned video and the lack of evidence regarding a Patreon content leak, I am inclined to believe otherwise.

"so for the love of whatever God you believe in and for the authors' sake, just keep your nasty comments for yourself"

The attitude of "Keep your dissenting opinions to yourself" is exactly how toxic echo chambers with their own share of cancel-warriors are born. 

It's a bit hard to enjoy the VN when the elements that make the plot horrible are so glaringly obvious.

I don't "find" the tropes that the writers used so much as I instantly recognize them when they come up.

This VN was...something, and not in a good way.

Here are some of the most notable things about this VN (Spoilers, obviously):

Overall, the plot was very predictable due to the authors' reliance on the technique of the Chekhov's Gun. For instance, when Alexios and Cassius won the first trial, someone analyzing the VN could predict that Amicus and the MC were going to win the second trial despite the video showing Amicus having sex with Neferu.  Why? Because the audience is told that there are three trials, so of course the plot is going to be set up in such a way that the third trial comes into play. More on that later. I know that tropes are tools and all that, but this particular trope is VERY overused in this VN. Though it does make for a fun exercise in predicting the plot as is fitting of a TVTroper, the plot itself is not enjoyable because of it.

Speaking of that, it didn't really come as a surprise that Cassius got dirt on Amicus as, of course, we see him sneaking around in Amicus's quarters. On one hand, this and other instances of foreshadowing in the VN do provide a justification for certain events occuring, rather than making it seem like an ass-pull. On the other hand, the sheer amount of Chekhov's Guns in the story makes it incredibly predictable.

I've criticized another VN, called Far Beyond the World, for having characters act dumb for the sake of plot, and this criticism applies to Adastra as well. For instance, when the MC and Amicus land on Adastra, the MC says that he would like Amicus to put away the Nervo (The space taser thing) because he "Doesn't want to think about it", something which comes back to bite him in the ass later on. Why the hell would ANYONE want to discard their one hope of being somewhat on par with an alien being on a planet god knows how far away from home? (Though, to be fair, even if the MC didn't throw away his nervo, Cato and Cassius still would have overpowered him in that scene)

And, of course, Amicus and the MC suspect nothing whatsoever when they see Cassius sneaking around their quarters.

There's also the fact that Virginia and co. try to get Cassius to abdicate the throne in front of a known spy. Of course, things go south after that. 

Then there's the plot contrivances. It seems as though the authors first decided on the plot and then had to figure out how to have the setting fit into it. There's the obvious case of the triumvirates declaring Amicus the victor in the second trial. This is handwaved as "Oh, the triumvirates are corrupt AF and Cassius said that he wants to get rid of them, so they voted against him". No matter how it's explained, it's a glaringly obvious plot contrivance that came into play for reasons discussed in the first paragraph. It's awfully convenient that they didn't decide to vote against Cassius in the first trial, though.

And, of course, it's VERY convenient that the cameras around the palace don't actually save recordings of events, or that anyone can access the records willy-nilly, or that the security drones can't aim when Cato orders the computer to kill the MC.

The part with the MC surviving his avia pox infection is not only a clear plot contrivance, but reeks of another trope. Yes, I know he is supposed to be chosen by the Parents to advance their goals for the Siblings, BUT the fact that the plot of the story just went "And so the MC survived his outbreak of what was supposed to be a fatal disease completely fine" is yet another plot contrivance. However, even if we disregard Marco's survival on the basis of avia pox being a fictional disease, and so maybe that's just how it progresses, the part about his presence on Adastra being the will of the Parents as part of their goals for the Siblings makes for yet another trope: the trope of the Chosen One. In my opinion, the trope of the Chosen One instantly makes a work orders of magnitude worse than it already is. The character is never in any peril because he was chosen by a divine force to carry out a certain plan (Honestly, I like the version of events where the MC dies better. It's a good subversion to the usual trope of "The main character is never in any actual danger when put into a dangerous situation". Alas, that's not the canon sequence of events.).

Not only is the MC of Adastra a Chosen One, but, in the complete series of events, he is saved by yet another plot contrivance that was the result of yet another Chekhov's Gun firing. Boooooooooo.

The one thing I liked about this VN (Besides it being a good study of certain tropes) is the way Neferu is written. He gives off "magnificent bastard" vibes, and I would say that scenes involving him were generally very enjoyable to read.

Oh, and the scene where Amicus introduces himself...since I know that Amicus means "friend" in Latin, that made me both chuckle and cringe at the same time.

Overall, I would say that this is the second-worst VN that I've read, only behind FBtW, but I'm going to future-proof this in case another VN comes along and knocks down Adastra to number 3 on my "Worst VNs I've read" list and simply say that this has been one of the worst VNs that I've read. Most of it, with the exceptions discussed above, is about as enjoyable as watching paint dry. There's probably lots of things I haven't touched on, but this was a very forgettable VN, and I definitely don't feel like replaying it. Those are hours of my life that I'll never get back.

TL;DR: If this is largely considered a good VN, then I'm VERY terrified of what people consider to be a bad VN.

"Reflect on how you said, "In my opinion, and I think that this is one that several other people would share...." If you were to find those other people and galvanize them to hinder authors from writing "bad" stories (perhaps by writing more silly comments or worse; you know this as "Hate Dumb." If you've been deep enough into the Internet to discover TVTropes, don't act like it hasn't happened before), you would have effectively used mob rule to suppress freedom of expression. Not to assume your intent, but don't do any of this."

I don't try to find other people who share an opinion and try to coordinate to get them to do anything in regards to VNs, so what is your point here? Are you accusing me of having done those things? Are you under the impression that people who write comments critical of the VN must be coordinating to do so (I wouldn't be surprised if, like with every other fandom, there have been some instances of it with FBtW. I haven't seen evidence of it happening here, but I haven't been looking, either) ?.

""I find xyz unappealing (in the context of abc)" communicates the relevant info objectively and falsifiably. If the author had AAA resources, perhaps he could put that data into good use. No one should take "good stories must have xyz" seriously."

In my initial comment, I have written several times that this is an opinion of mine, particularly when I said that I think that good stories should have competent characters.

"Let's say you were to do something that causes drama (wink, wink), disrupting the status quo, potentially causing harm (perhaps contributing to a chilling effect that leads to censorship). And what if you were to do it again, and again? You're still a reasonable person, right?"

Not enough information. To answer that question, I think one should know several things, such as:

1. What are the things one wants to accomplish?

2. What information does one have access to?

3. What is being done?

4. How does the thing that is done affect one's progress towards point 1?

5. What effects does the thing being done have?

6. Values?

(There are probably others one would need to address to judge whether someone doing something is reasonable or not, but I think you get the point. In the case of the VN, I do think these questions can be answered regarding the characters).

Yes, I am arguing in good faith, though my memory of the events of the VN is very hazy. Perhaps my comment regarding the dancing scene may have been in error (Though there are certainly other disappointments in the VN). Apologies if the comment seemed like I was trying to dictate how the story was written, I am not. I am simply saying what parts of it I do not like. Although I do not understand what people find particularly appealing about FBtW, I know that some people do like it.

I'm curious now, what is one VN that has a less tolerable protagonist?

"It's fine for a story to have characters that are not always on their A-game. Classic episodes of "The Simpsons" and "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" have incompetent characters yet good stories. YMMV of course."

Those two shows also happen to be comedies/satires.  Yes, a story can have incompetent characters and still be enjoyable if that incompetence is played for laughs. See, for example, Cabin in the Woods, which parodies the American horror movie genre and mocks the characters' incompetence. FBtW seems to play this incompetence straight and relies on it to move the plot forward.

"It's realistic for some characters to act emotionally and irrationally sometimes. Bad decisions and miscommunication are facts of life." I end up addressing this sentiment in the last paragraph of this comment.

"Like I said, this isn't a children's story. It's not a guide for how to act in these types of situations."

Having competent characters does not equate to them making perfect decisions or to the story being a how-to guide for certain situations. There are plenty of stories, for instance, where the protagonist makes all the right decisions and loses because the antagonist is just better. Alternatively, it wasn't something that the protagonist actually had capability to do anything about. Or the decisions that the protagonists make seemed like a good idea given the information that they possess, but are actually incorrect for reasons they did not know at the time, or there was no "correct" choice and it was just a choice of one bad outcome or the other, or... you get the idea.

"Your analysis of the chief scene legit comes from an error in reading comprehension. The CG showing the chief, Ranok, and the guards only shows a split second of the action (compare this to a prose book with a full page image on the right, text as usual on the left). The delay was caused by Ranok trying to attack his father, causing the guards to restrain him. The chief, as Ranok's father, was trying to make an impression on Ranok. Caelan speaks immediately the second after the sword was taken out (EDIT: the delay for Caelan speaking can be explained by clear instructions not to speak to anyone). I've re-read the chief scene to confirm. TBF, I misremembered the slow-motion part."

Fair enough

"Instead of claiming "good stories must have competent characters," why not say, "I don't find stories with blatantly emotional characters appealing.""

That would not be true if I said that. There are stories that have emotional, or sometimes hysterical, characters that I liked. For instance, the movie "Alien" is something I liked. With the exception of that one guy putting his face over the alien egg (And that is a major beef that I have with that movie), the crew seemed to deal with the situation pretty well as far as I recall. I think it was even Lambert that came up with the plan to nuke the ship. She ends up dying, but it's not because of incompetence. The common thread I seem to find between stories that I like are that the character(s) are at least as competent as an average person would be. You bring up horror movies in the second half of that paragraph. Have you heard that people often criticize American horror movies because they rely on the characters doing dumb things that people would not do in that situation? That's basically my point here. Yes, the characters do end up facing the consequences of these poor decisions, but that's not what I have issue with, it's the fact that these decisions were made in the first place.

"But what's wrong with the character making a few bad decisions and facing consequences after?"

The fact that some of these mistakes are mistakes that no half-reasonable person would make, and the fact that the plot sometimes relies on these mistakes being made in order to advance.

"Wouldn't the writing be more "contrived", out-of-touch, and boring if Caelan never makes mistakes at all? "

It is entirely possible for a competent character to make mistakes. For instance, one could take a course of action that seems appropriate given the information he/she has access to, but is still wrong due to factors unknown to the character. If my memory of the VN so far serves me well, the PC's initial impression of Tryst falls under that category: he initially thinks that Tryst is just a racist asshole until he learns that Tryst acts the way he does because he has been enslaved.

"Would it be realistic writing for Caelan to never be discovered eventually, when there is sentry duty every night very close to the house, and the wolves are doing the suspicious activity of bringing food from the feast?"

No, but there are plenty of other ways for the PC to have been discovered that didn't rely on him acting like a fool. As you've said, there is sentry duty close to the house and others would notice the wolves smuggling food. It wouldn't have been realistic for the PC to have never been discovered in a society like that, but he could have been discovered in any of the ways that didn't hinge on him making bad decisions.

" Is it really unthinkable for drunk, lonely, and jealous Caelan to want to dance with someone?"

It certainly is a stretch of the imagination when he is supposed to be pretending that he has suffered a serious injury and when not acting like it could get him killed and his friends exiled.

"Notice the "Ominous Whisper" that occurs before certain bad decisions. While this plot device is kinda simplistic, is it really that offensive to your sense of good taste to have a character go through some mental struggles?"

IIRC, it doesn't occur before his worst decisions. The way his mental struggles were written, however, just sours the VN.

"Covering up for Vulgor was rational. It would be unscrupulous for Caelan to lose an ally like Vulgor, and in Caelan's best interest to try to be his friend. " Ok, good point on that one, but the PC is still dumb for blurting out the "Human touch" line.

"The dramatic license used when the chief was trying to kill Caelan was explained as the slow-motion memory capture effect that occurs when you're in a life-threatening situation. Really, it doesn't take that long to utter three words (that he was prepared to say in advance). "

Didn't the chief and Ranok manage to exchange several words during that scene, and Ranok also had time to briefly break free of the guards restraining him? Wasn't the chief's blade supposed to already be part way into his flesh when the PC said the words?

"compelled to tell everyone the things they personally don't like while the rest of us just enjoy the VN", that's...the whole point of having a comment section: so that people can tell other people what they like or don't like about a certain work or to share their thoughts on the matter.

1. At first, I wanted to know what the VN would be like. I was disappointed.

2. So I could write a TVTropes page on it when it is finished.

3. I want to see if it will become enjoyable to read sometime in the future. I do keep being disappointed in this regard, but hey, there are still many more chapters to go, maybe it will change.

4. To pass time.

5. I'm holding onto hope that the VN will be a good read at some point.

"A good story doesn't require fully competent role model characters", I would argue that a good story should have the characters meet some standard of competence, not necessarily such that they know everything about what they are doing, but so that they don't take actions that no reasonable person would take (Such as being spotted because of looking out of a window despite being told not to do that exact thing, or dancing despite supposedly having suffered a grievous injury) for the sake of plot. 

"rather he was doing what he thought was best given the circumstances" when talking about Vulgor choking the PC, I am not talking about the first scene, I am talking about the one where the PC gets choked after saying the "Human touch" line and how he subsequently covers it up when asked. The part about Vulgor being abusive and the PC brushing it off also applies to the scene with the dress.

"While the Sylvan law sparing Caelan's life was convenient for the author, I wouldn't call it a deux ex machina"

My part about a Deus Ex Machina does not refer to that law per se  (Although it is awfully convenient and another point I forgot to add in my original post), but rather to the fact that the chief took so long with trying to kill the PC so that the scene is drawn out and so that the PC has a chance to say the words. As I've said, this also counts as plot armor.

Oh dear, where should I start?

I thought that the player character's stupidity and the plot contrivances were bad enough in Adastra, but this is something else.

The player's character is the textbook definition of a simp. He spends significant chunks of the game just simping over Ranok. With how much time he spends doing so, it becomes annoying to read.

The PC is also a drama queen, and the VN seems to rely on pointless drama a lot. This occurs several times in the game, such as when the PC and Ranok had their argument before the latter departed, the PC's outburst in Vulgor's shop, the whole scene with the collar, and probably something else that I've forgotten. There was also the incident with the dress that resulted in the characters bickering. All in all, I would say that the PC is a drama queen to the point of being unlikeable. The VN itself seems to heavily rely on drama as its source of tension and for advancing the plot, such as with the "Human touch" scene and the one where the PC is manhandled by the elders. IMO, FBTW is not enjoyable to read because of this.

The PC constantly defends his abuser (Vulgor) after the latter chokes him. I mean, seriously? Not only that, but the game seems to rely on the PC acting dumb and generally uses plot contrivances in order to advance the plot. For instance, the PC goes near the window and gets seen, despite being instructed not to, and almost gets killed.  Why would any sane person risk dying over something like this? It's almost as if the PC has no self-preservation instinct. BUT WAIT, he gets saved at the last second right as the tribe's chief was about to kill him.  There was also a scene where the PC dances with Tano despite supposedly having a serious injury. In my opinion, and I think that this is one that several other people would share, a good story should have competent characters and not rely on plot contrivances or on characters holding the idiot ball to move the plot forward. Not only does the PC not fit the description of being competent, but it is almost as if he is deliberately taking a bad course of action at times. I mean, did he seriously not think that the "Human touch" line would sound off? While it would still be entirely Vulgor's fault for reacting the way he did, for someone whose very existence can mean death, the PC is sure not doing so well in the "Try not to piss people off" department. Having the PC be saved at the last second because the chief took his time trying to kill him also screams "Plot armor".

So, all in all, the VN has too much drama for my taste and relies on plot contrivances and the PC's incompetence to advance the story. The PC is completely unlikeable. IMO, if a deus-ex-machina and the PC holding the idiot ball is needed to progress the story, that's just lazy writing. Would not recommend.